In the USA, our media is controlled and they do not tell the people anything of real importance. Below are examples of recent events in which our media has made no mention of whatsoever. How much will the people of America take before they decide enough is enough? Surely there is a breaking point.
Documents disclose 'shadow government'
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52164
Russian Bombers Penetrate N. American Buffer Zone, Intercepted by U.S., Canadian Jet Fighters
http://www.mosnews.com/news/2006/09/30/rusbombers.shtml
Beijing secretly fires lasers to disable US satellites
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/09/26/wchina226.xml
-CD
Just something I need to point out:
1. cannot comment on the shadow government...
2. The russian bomber thing reminds me of the american spy plane, that penetrated the chinese air space. It rammed a chinese interceptor and was forced to land on chinese soil. USA claimed, that it stayed outside the 3 mile radius. ( http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/chinaisright.html (might be too liberal for you, but it has most of the facts)) Yet USA enforces a 30 mile radius for its own borders... That is pretty bigot, if you ask me. Anyway, those were bombers on a training mission, I doubt they were planning on bombing the US with those two planes. I am pretty sure though, that the spy plane was actually spying on the chinese.
3. It is a pretty logical step to disable spying devices used against you. I have no problem with that. I have more problems with the satellites for spying purposes.
QuoteThere has been increasing alarm in parts of the American military establishment over China's growing military ambitions.
Military experts have already noted that Chinese military expenditure is increasingly designed to challenge American military pre-eminence by investing in weaponry that can attack key systems such as aircraft carriers and satellites.
At the same time, China is engaged in a large-scale espionage effort against American high-tech firms working on projects such as the multibillion-pound DD(X) destroyer programme.
Several spy rings have been cracked and the FBI is increasing the number of counter-intelligence staff tracking the Chinese effort.
i would be worried about a war between china and america.
i dont know why they would want to have a war, but i dont think it would be a good thing.
Grimm:
"1. cannot comment on the shadow government..."
Would this be because there isn't really enough information here to make a sound opinion? Or do you just feel it not wise to comment on such things? You strike my curiosity by that statement.
Grimm:
"2. The russian bomber thing reminds me of the american spy plane, that penetrated the chinese air space. It rammed a chinese interceptor and was forced to land on chinese soil. USA claimed, that it stayed outside the 3 mile radius. Yet USA enforces a 30 mile radius for its own borders... That is pretty bigot, if you ask me. Anyway, those were bombers on a training mission, I doubt they were planning on bombing the US with those two planes. I am pretty sure though, that the spy plane was actually spying on the chinese."
Well, for one, my point was that no usa media reported this...at all! :angry:
For two, Russia is just testing our responses. Of course the bomber was not going to bomb anything, that is not what that was about. I think the 30 mile radius is a good thing. I do NOT want Chinese and Russian spy planes flying 3 miles offshore to the mainland usa! I am not certain how the 3 mile radius for Chinese territory was established. If one looks at it in comparison, it is a little off. But in reality, these are the kinds of things that are settled by having a more powerful military, and in WW II, when that radius was established, I'm sure, the situation was much different than today. I would also like to note that the usa plane has lost its course, and flew way too far in. If the altercation happened at about the 3-mile point, then perhaps 3 miles is not the official mark. I honestly do not know. I view China as an enemy, so I'm not going to complain if we have an upper hand on them when it comes to this. To be "fair" to an adversary is plain foolish. Not when it comes to life and death, national survival and all that. This is life, and life is not fair. Anyways, I bet if you compared the Russia/usa treaty on border buffer zones, they probably are the same, as well as allies.
Grimm:
"3. It is a pretty logical step to disable spying devices used against you. I have no problem with that. I have more problems with the satellites for spying purposes."
I can understand why you'd have a problem with this. But you do not have a mind for military really either. I can see you thinking about citizen privacy issues, at which point I would be in full agreement with you. But this is not the case here. As I stated before, China is our enemy, and we need to know wtf they are doing. I do agree, this is a logical counter-move by China. Again, my point was, that the usa media did not even report it...at all! :angry:
Mad:
"i would be worried about a war between china and america.
i dont know why they would want to have a war, but i dont think it would be a good thing."
The usa projects a lot of power in Asia. China is the regional power. China wants us out. Taiwan is a troublesome issue as well and could very well one day be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
When we entered the war in Afghanistan after the 9-11 attacks, I remember looking at the map and thinking "dear Lord, we are surrounded by enemies!" If you notice, Afghanistan is a land-locked nation, with all the nations surrounding it pretty much hating our guts and who may turn a blind eye to any anti-American efforts, or worse. You must try to remember how it was right after 9-11; Nobody really knew what was happening and it was kinda scary for a little while. I was honestly frightened at the possibilities...Was this a ploy to draw in our forces into a trap? What would happen if neighboring countries attacked us while we were in Afghanistan, at the same time China could sense vulnerability at attack Taiwan, setting off a chain-reaction by North Korea to attack South Korea and Japan...What would happen? What would we do? What could we do?? It changed my perspective on everything.
A major change in my view is the issue concerning China. When China was having their civil war, nationalist vs communist, the usa supported the nationalist government which was then in control of China and was recognized as the legitimate government of China internationally. The problem was, at the time of their rule, the majority of Chinese people hated the government. It was apparently corrupt or incompetent. So, we were supporting a government that the people themselves didn't even want. This to me is something usa has no business doing in the first place. So, the communists ousts the nationalist government from mainland China. The nationalist government flees to Taiwan. Every since then, the usa has maintained support for this government, even though Nixon officially recognized communist Chinese government! It is by far the stupidest thing I think we are involved in and it will likely cause us a major war that no American citizen wants. I would like to see us fully withdraw from any support to Taiwan. Allow any who know they would get killed by a Chinese takeover to live in usa and call it a day. I would not consider this a weak move or a retreat, but a correction to an objective that was flawed. China would still be a threat, but that would go a long way to having them not so hostile towards us. It's the region that has the real worries.
The whole thing is a disaster waiting to happen. I think China only waits to build its amphibious assault units, that is all they need now to complete a realistic invasion of Taiwan. After that, it will only be a matter of time, waiting for the right opportunity.
This is why we spy on them. :wink:
-CD
america cannot defeat china, china can barely attack america. nukes make war suicide.
CD, I cannot comment on 1. because I have only that article as source of information.
About the spying in China, sure, USA will do that, China will do the same in USA. I am just curious, why you have problems with the chinese countering the US efforts. It should be pretty logical and is not an offensive strategy. On the contrary, it is defensive and the USA is the intruder. So, should the US media report on the US spying efforts in China? Probably, but I don't think it matters.
The russians are not testing anything, if you ask me. I don't see the threat of a direct conflict of USA and Russia. Not soon anyway. :)
India + USA = :beer:
especially since they are now helping us with our nuclear stuffs :mrgreen:
Although doing that is against legislation, Bush is pushing for the legislation of be poofed! lol!
All your nuke are belong to us.
Grimm:
"About the spying in China, sure, USA will do that, China will do the same in USA. I am just curious, why you have problems with the Chinese countering the US efforts. It should be pretty logical and is not an offensive strategy. On the contrary, it is defensive and the USA is the intruder. So, should the US media report on the US spying efforts in China? Probably, but I don't think it matters.
I do see where it is logical for China to counter [or try at least] what we throw at them. I expect the same of us. This is what adversaries do. This is my problem; the story is already out, and still our media refuses to even mention it. It gets complicated, but the reason they didn't report it was because they were afraid of the people's reaction, making it difficult to maneuver politically on the global stage. The thing is the people don't think too highly of the "global effort" in the first place, so it is not just about China. It's about being blatantly lied to by the "elected" representatives and the media. I expect our media outlets to be for the people, not propaganda machines administered by corporate executives and the gov. But that is exactly what we have.
This is my problem.
Grimm:
"The Russians are not testing anything, if you ask me. I don't see the threat of a direct conflict of USA and Russia. Not soon anyway."
I didn't bring this up to say "The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming!" :P Above problem is the same with this story too. Note I had to go to MOSCOW news to find this!!!! UK news to see the China story!
WTF! It is incredible to me, the level of deceit.
Caddy:
"especially since they are now helping us with our nuclear stuffs
Although doing that is against legislation, Bush is pushing for the legislation of be poofed!"
I am afraid nothing good can come from this [Pakistan/India nuke nations], but, India already has the nuke tech, so we are helping them to make things more efficient, and that is safety/hazard type stuff, disposal and etc. We will show India how to maximize nuke energy capability.
-CD
Quote from: Creeping_Death on October 04, 2006, 01:02:22 AM
I am afraid nothing good can come from this [Pakistan/India nuke nations], but, India already has the nuke tech, so we are helping them to make things more efficient, and that is safety/hazard type stuff, disposal and etc. We will show India how to maximize nuke energy capability.
India didn't ratify the NPC. Something is wrong with sharing nuclear technology... ;)
indeed we didnt :P
thats why there is a legislation against bush helping those who didnt sign/ ratify.
that will be poofed :mrgreen: :smoking:
And what will the world say 20 years down the line, when India has a nuclear accident due to inferior tech, all the while we sit here and do nothing? For one I think we will make money by contracts and two India has safer facilities, everyone wins in the deal. They already have the tech, it is not like we are giving it to them.
And the legislation I think should be altered because it adhears to an international law, which is un-constitutional, thus void anyways.
The only way you can call us to such things is because, yes, we have had leaders to sign these into law. But I would ask you, if it was blatantly against your laws to do such a thing, where would you go from there?
A Republic based on democratic ideals gets very complex sometimes. In the old days, those leaders, senators, or congressmen would be jailed and tried for treason....today? Nothing happens. If anything it is quietly accepted.
It is detestable to me for the nations of the world to give up their sovereignty, especially a country like ours, which is founded on the very effort of independance!
So, I'm ok with the India nuke deal I guess...India is in deep just like Israel [the two major non-muslim nations in Middle East/Central Asia]. India has direct troubles with an exspansionist China too. :tank:
-CD
Quote from: Creeping_Death on October 03, 2006, 01:26:10 PM
Grimm:
Grimm:
"2. The russian bomber thing reminds me of the american spy plane, that penetrated the chinese air space. It rammed a chinese interceptor and was forced to land on chinese soil. USA claimed, that it stayed outside the 3 mile radius. Yet USA enforces a 30 mile radius for its own borders... That is pretty bigot, if you ask me. Anyway, those were bombers on a training mission, I doubt they were planning on bombing the US with those two planes. I am pretty sure though, that the spy plane was actually spying on the chinese."
Well, for one, my point was that no usa media reported this...at all! :angry:
CD I read about this stuff in a newspaper here in Colorado. Evidently they were both conducting military exercises.
http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_4418975 (http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_4418975)
It will be the Second Cold War me thinks.
This time USA and China will be the major players, while India and occasionally Russia take adv of this.
Methinks that THIS is the golden age of humanity. Cold War over, oil left.
However, all ages come to an end.
PKT:
There's one local paper, I wander how many local papers reprted on this. No national television news stations did I see report this. Fox, CNN, MSN...this is my main point.
I was able to find the Chinese incident on another news source, but it was not usa news, it was Israeli.
Absolutely NO reports can I find about the coming North American "federation" being created in the shadows, hence the title name "shadow government." I have a book and some other information which points to this "shadow government" 16 years ago!
The current article only re-enforces Mr. Cooper's claims. Too bad he was murdered in 2001, I would very much like to know what he would have to say about everything that's happened in the last 6 years.
America has had many great heroes, too bad most of them end up murdered. :(
Thanks for that link PKT, I'm glad to hear at least some local news did report, a small refreshment.
-CD
Caddy:
"It will be the Second Cold War me thinks.
This time USA and China will be the major players, while India and occasionally Russia take adv of this.
Methinks that THIS is the golden age of humanity. Cold War over, oil left."
There are times where it does appear that we are allowing China to build-up, to create a situation that could lead to a "2nd cold war," however, China is not Russia. The Russians are very smart and cunning, don't get me wrong, but they are not Asian, they are Slavik. Two different belief systems, two different types of character, traditions, and etc.
China will not be kept in the play-pen for the West like Russia basically agreed to. The term "cold war" came from the USSR & USA conducting "proxy wars."
A proxy war is a war that is started by two nations, but the battle is faught by other nations on other lands. A good example of a proxy war is the latest Israeli-Lebanese war....Iran controls Hezbollah based in southern Lebanon, and the USA influences Israel. The war was faught between Israelis [with USA military weapons] and Lebanese [mainly, with some Iranian and Syrian military assistance], and the battles took place in Israel and Lebanon. Iran wanted to test Israel's response [thus USA's response], and I guess we wanted to see what they are made of [I'm really not sure why the mass scale war was allowed].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_war
The USA and Iran have been in their own "cold war" since Iran declared war on America in 1979. Most of the moves by these two nations have been played out behind the scenes, similar to the USSR-USA cold war, just on a lesser scale.
If you notice, over the years, the USA has built military bases that encircle Iran. This isn't by mere chance.
The Iraq war could be viewed as a proxy war on Iran's part, and a partial one for us. Iraq's future will determine Iran's future, and all the key players know this.
India:
India seems too hostile and short-tempered with the muslims to have proxy wars. I've seen Pakistan initiate a proxy war in Kashmir, and India responds by amassing military on the Pakistan border! :lol: They don't seem to want to "play" :P
I like that though personally....why play around? Destroy your enemy, that is what war is for, not for game.
I do not like cold wars, it is high level of deceit.
-CD
i will hereby give you my favouritist quote from the indian armed forces:
"Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations and Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."- Indian Armed Forces
:D
we just get in there and blow them back to the stone age :)
that's a good one
Quote from: Creeping_Death on October 07, 2006, 09:10:19 PM
Too bad he was murdered in 2001, I would very much like to know what he would have to say about everything that's happened in the last 6 years.
America has had many great heroes, too bad most of them end up murdered. :(
not murdered, "disappeared" or perhaps "eliminated" / "removed"
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